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Conversation With A Catholic


I came across this today and it was too good not to share…

About a year ago, I posted the off-handed comment that you really should not pray to Mary, it’s Unbiblical and perhaps even heretical.

Oh boy did that anger the Catholics, all 1.4 billion of them!

Since then, I’ve heard it all.

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I’ve heard that I’d better back off and recant because Mary is the Queen of Heaven!

(no she’s not)

Is Mary The “Queen of Heaven”?

I've been told I'm really wrong and that I have no idea how much "pull" Mary has in Heaven and over Jesus.

(no.  just no.)

No, Mary Does Not “Have a Lot of Pull” In Heaven…

This one might have been my favorite....

Noah, sometimes we HAVE TO pray to Mary because Jesus gets busy so we need his mother to get his attention and talk some sense into him!

(such a flawed understanding of the unmatched Glory of God)

Catholics Give Most Absurd Reason Yet For “Praying To Mary”

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And now with all of that history under my belt, I have to tell you just how funny and brilliant this video is.

This guy nails it!

This video right here demonstrates almost every conversation I have had with the Catholics over the past year.

Please enjoy:

This is also really great:

Full look:

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Oh my goodness that is spot on!

This too:

Don't even get me going on Purgatory...

Exposing Purgatory

I was talking to someone the other day about the Catholic idea of Purgatory, and I was explaining to them what it actually is.

They could not believe what I was telling them, because the actual concept of Catholic Purgatory is not at all what we've all been lead to believe by popular culture, movies, TV shows, etc.

Remember the TV show Lost?

Remember how it was the most amazing show we'd ever seen, until the final season and then it had one of the worst endings ever?

(Side note: Damon Lindeloff later completely redeemed himself with the TV series "The Leftovers", a similar styled show, but ending the show with one of the most praised finales of all time.  Definitely worth a watch.)

I bring it up because early on people started guessing that the people from the crashed plane were essentially in "Purgatory" on that island.  The people who ran the show vehemently denied that was the case, but then as the show wrapped up it was revealed that yeah, they were basically in Purgatory.

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But what is Purgatory?

Or what is the common understanding most of us have that are not Catholic?

Essentially, it's a Cosmic Waiting Room.

You die, you go into the Cosmic Waiting Room and then eventually you find out if you get to go up to Heaven or down to Hell.

Isn't that what you've always been told?

But that's not at all what Catholics believe or teach.

So just like the guy I was talking to recently and it blew his mind, I want to do the same thing with you now here.

I know this will probably anger some Catholics, but it really shouldn't...because I'm not going to do anything other than to try and faithfully describe what Catholics believe.  And if you're not embarrassed by what you believe, then there's really no reason to get mad or offended.  Ok?

Ok, let's dig in...

Starting with the fact that Purgatory is NOT a Cosmic Waiting Room to see if you go up or down.

In fact, if you are destined for Hell, you NEVER go to Purgatory.

Purgatory is only for those who "die in friendship" with God, as the Catholics say.

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It's already decided they are going up, but there's a problem...

Jesus took care of MOST of their sins, but some sins are just real pesky and are still hanging on....

Again, I'm not making any of this up, I'm describing it verbatim as what they believe and teach.

So here's the situation: you're dead and Jesus has been able to take care of most of your sins, but some are really difficult and you have to go to this big lake of fire -- which I know sounds a lot like Hell, but it's not Hell it's Purgatory -- and then the fire of Purgatory eventually burns off those last remaining sins so you can enter Heaven sinless.

Fact Check me, that's 100% what they teach.

And if you want to speed up the process, you can do that.

The souls in Purgatory can be helped by the living through:

  • Prayers
  • Masses offered for them
  • Indulgences
  • Good works and sacrifices offered on their behalf

Now I realize that sounds wildly heretical, that Jesus was insufficient to fully cleanse your sins all at once, and Jesus has to be "helped out a bit" by a Purgatorial lake of fire and even prayers and masses and indulgences and good works and sacrifices from the living still here on Earth, but again I am not offering my commentary I am explaining to you exactly what they believe and teach.

Don't believe me?

I asked Grok to give me a quick and objective summary of what Catholics believe about Purgatory and here it is below.  See if this matches up exactly with what I just told you:

Purgatory in simple terms:

Purgatory is a temporary state (or process) after death where souls who die in God's grace (i.e., they are saved and destined for Heaven) but are not yet perfectly holy are purified before entering Heaven.


Core Concepts (Made Simple):

Who goes there? Only saved Christians (those who die in friendship with God, with their mortal sins forgiven).

Not for the damned (they go to Hell). Not for those already perfectly pure (they go straight to Heaven, like many saints).


Why does it exist? Heaven requires perfect holiness — no sin, no attachment to sin, and full love for God.

Most people die with some remaining venial (lesser) sins, imperfect repentance, or unhealthy attachments to sin.

Purgatory is God's merciful "finishing school" — it cleanses and heals the soul so it can fully enjoy Heaven without any stain.


How does it work? It's a process of purification, often described as painful (like fire) because letting go of sin and self-love hurts.

The pain comes from longing for God while feeling one's own unworthiness, and from the cleansing itself.

Souls in Purgatory cannot sin anymore and cannot lose their salvation — they are guaranteed to reach Heaven eventually.

The duration is unknown and varies; it's not measured in earthly time. Some may pass through quickly; others take longer.

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Key Catholic beliefs about it: Purgatory is not a second chance at salvation — your eternal destiny (Heaven or Hell) is decided at death (the Particular Judgment).

The Church teaches it based on Scripture (e.g., 2 Maccabees 12:46, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, Matthew 5:26) and Tradition.

The souls in Purgatory can be helped by the living through:

  • Prayers
  • Masses offered for them
  • Indulgences
  • Good works and sacrifices offered on their behalf

This is called the "Communion of Saints" — the Church on earth, in Purgatory, and in Heaven are connected.

There you have it!

The next question you might have is, does the Bible teach this?

My answer?  No, not even close.

But I'm being objective in this article, so let me show you the entire Biblical basis behind how Catholics came to believe in Purgatory:

2 Maccabees 12:39–46

“...they turned to supplication, praying that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out… He [Judas] also took up a collection… and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering… Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.”

Support: Shows faithful Jews praying and offering sacrifices for the dead to be freed from sin — a practice only makes sense if the dead can still benefit from purification (not in Heaven or Hell).

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1 Corinthians 3:11–15

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ… the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”

Support: The person is already saved (on Christ’s foundation) but undergoes a purifying “fire” that burns away imperfect works — exactly the Catholic image of Purgatory.


Matthew 5:25–26

“Make friends quickly with your accuser… lest your accuser hand you over to the judge… and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.”

Support: The “prison” is temporary (you eventually get out after paying the last debt), seen as a metaphor for post-death purification of venial sins or remaining attachments.


Matthew 12:32

“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

Support: Implies some sins can be forgiven in the “age to come” (after death), which Catholics link to Purgatory.


Luke 12:42–48

“…the master of that slave will… cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. That slave who knew what his master wanted… will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know… will receive a light beating.”

Support: Different degrees of punishment for the imperfect (not the damned), fitting a purifying state before full reward in Heaven.

I'm not going to do a dissection of each verse, I'll let you decide what you think of those.

Are those verses clear and sufficient enough to describe the concept of Purgatory I explained to you above?

It seems wildly flimsy to me, but who cares about my opinion?

Let's go to one of the best Biblical scholars and semitic language scholars of the past century, if not of all time, Dr. Michael S. Heiser.  A true hero of mine.

Who cares what Noah thinks, what does Dr. Heiser think of Purgatory?

In short, he sees no Biblical evidence to support it.

See here:

And here:

Man, Dr. Heiser was such a gift, I sure do miss him.

Luckily he was very prolific while he lived, so we have mountains of books, articles, podcasts, videos, seminars and everything else to dig into for decades, but it's really sad we lost him to cancer a few years ago and we'll never get anything new from him.

I desperately wanted to have him as a guest on my show, The Daily Truth Report, but he died before we could make that happen.

Anyway, there you have it folks!

I'm with Dr. Heiser on this one.

I believe your sins were judged once and for all on the Cross, and that the work of Jesus is sufficient to handle all of your sins, instantly, and he does not need to be aided by the living "Saints" still on Earth, or by a lake of fire, or by the process of time.  I believe he can handle it in the blink of an eye, by himself.  Adding anything else is heretical if you ask me.

And that's why I'm publishing this, because our mission around here since Day 1 has always been to print the TRUTH wherever we find it.

Most of the time, that's in politics, but sometimes when I come across something like this I have to share this truth with you as well.

Because politics comes and goes.  It's temporary.

But this?

This has eternal consequences.

This may be the most important article I will publish all day long.  All week long.  All year long.  So that's why I'm publishing it.

I encourage open and honest comments and debate down below.

Bring your comments!

Bring your debate!

The only thing I ask is that you bring logic, not just emotion.

Don't just yell and scream and throw a fit, debate me on the ideas, on the merits, on the Bible!

Don't just throw a hissy fit because I poked your sacred cow, tell me why I'm wrong and do it with the Bible.

I will look forward to reading those comments very much if you bring them.

And look, while we're at it -- in for a penny in for a pound -- not only is Purgatory a really bad idea, Biblically speaking, but you should also stop praying to Mary.

Yeah, I said it.

Catholics Give Most Absurd Reason Yet For “Praying To Mary”

There are two things that always get me in big trouble around here when I write about them...

One is calling out the Freemasons.

People get irrationally mad when I do that, viscerally, emotionally angry at me!

The second is when I tell the Catholics they should really stop praying to Mary and to Angels.

They get almost equally mad at me.

But....we have a mission around here and that is to print the truth wherever we find it, and the truth is that the Bible NEVER tells you to pray to Mary or to pray to Angels.

It doesn't instruct it.

It doesn't permit it.

In fact, it specifically says NOT to do that.

But the Catholics just really like doing it and so they do it anyway.

And the reasons they come up with for doing it are about as broad as you can imagine, but the latest one I just came across is perhaps the worst and most blasphemous one I've ever heard.

Meet Father David Michael, or at least that's what I assume his name is based on the video below.

In the video below, Father David Michael says he is in fact a Catholic Priest, and although he looks like he's 15 years old and he talks about calling his mom a lot, he appears to be an adult Catholic Priest.

He's certainly wearing the outfit, but that doesn't always mean anything.

Anyway....Father David Michael says that the reason Catholics can and should pray to Mary is because Jesus just sometimes gets busy!

I mean, cut the guy some slack, he's got to really have his hands full running the world and all, so sometimes he just gets a little tied up!

And if Jesus is busy, you can get his attention....by calling his mother!

Just phone up Mary and then she will scold Jesus and tell him to get his act together and get back to you quicker.

Folks, I wish I were mocking and exaggerating what I just said, but that's literally a verbatim transcript of what this guy just said.

Watch here:

It's such a bad take, I almost don't even know where to begin...

Is this what they are teaching now in Seminaries?

The irony is, it reminds me exactly of Elijah taunting the prophets of Ba'al in 1 Kings 18.  Remember this?

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.”

The sad irony though is that this was Elijah taunting the other prophets for their inept "god".

How far we've fallen since then....

Now we have a Catholic Priest who must not have ever read this chapter of the Bible trying to promote what Elijah used as mockery as doctrine to support praying to Mary.

So sad!

And in case we need it, here's a backup:

Gee, how many heresies can you jam into 53 seconds?

The all-mighty, all-powerful creator of the Universe sometimes just gets too busy to hear your prayers?

But Mary can hear them just fine?

And then Mary will just scold Jesus like a shrill Jewish mother and tell him what to do?

YIKES!

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Look folks, I know you Catholics really love praying to Mary and the Angels, I know it's like a security blanket for you, the cosmic equivalent of sucking your thumb, but you really need to stop.

It's completely unbiblical.

It's heretical.

And it also is just silly....

Mary is a 100% human being who is now in heaven.  She is not a "god".  She cannot hear your prayers.  You are literally praying to no one and just wasting your time if you think she can hear you.  It's silly.

I've written much more about it here:

MEMO TO THE CATHOLICS: Please Stop Praying To Mary and Angels

MEMO TO THE CATHOLICS: Please Stop Praying To Mary and Angels

This post may ruffle some feathers, and I am ok with that...

We have one founding Mission around here that is paramount to everything else: Print the Truth.

That's what we've done since Day 1 back in 2015 and that's what we'll do for the next 50 years as long as I remain in the Editor's chair.

Print the truth without bias....

Without censorship....

Wherever we find it, whether that's in politics, religion...anywhere!

So today I have to tackle a tough topic with the Catholics, but I do it out of love and in furtherance of our Mission.

I also want to say Catholics are good people and despite my disagreement with them on this point, they are absolutely still Christians.  And they are of course always welcome here, just as everyone is, even if we disagree on something.

Ok, so with all of those disclaimers out of the way, let's jump right in....

It all started a few days ago when I posted this article:

President Trump Posts Prayer To Saint Michael The Archangel

The Catholics were NOT happy with me when I commented that as a baby Christian I don't think President Trump knows any better and his heart is in the right place, but the Catholics have had centuries to fix this and they still continue to pray to Mary and to Angels.

Well, that did not go over well....

The Catholics came out in full force in the comments section and boy did it get spicy (as I knew it would)!

What I quickly learned was that not even all of them agree, and *most* simply had an emotional reaction.

Most simply have always prayed to Mary and prayed to Angels because it's their tradition, it's what they were taught.  They can't really defend it and they get very emotional when told it might be wrong.

If possible, I'd like to take as much emotion out of it and simply offer the Catholics some food for thought.

Why?

Because I do think it's very important.

I don't believe it rises to the level of a core salvation issue, you can (wrongly) pray to Mary and believe in Jesus and still end up in Heaven, but wouldn't you like to fix things now if your compass was off?

So that's the goal of this article.

I have no doubt a brand new firestorm will erupt in the comments section of this article, and I'm ok with that.  But I have to publish this article.

I want to start with the most common theme I read from all the Catholics in the last article, which was basically this:  "We don't really pray to Mary, we just ask her to intercede for us on our behalf.  What's wrong with that?  Haven't you ever asked a friend to pray for you?  Same thing!"

I'd love to address that.

The first thing that's wrong with that is it's in direct conflict with 1 Timothy 2:5 which says the following: "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus." (NIV)

It's almost as if God knew some people would try to pray to Mary or pray to Angels and so he put this verse in the Bible as a caution.

The finished work of Jesus is sufficient, you don't need to add anything to it!

You don't need Jesus + Mary.

As I told one person, I very good rule of thumb for anything theological, is any time you find yourself doing the formula of needing "Jesus + _____" you're probably in dangerous territory.

Jesus alone is sufficient.

In the Old Testament, man needed a mediator with God.

After the death and resurrection of Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us now there is only ONE mediator between God and mankind, and it doesn't involve Mary as the relay rally assistant.  Do not cheapen the finished work of Jesus Christ.

It reminds of that classic "What would you say you DO here" scene from Office Space -- where the one guy's job is completely unnecessary:

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Funny clip to prove a point -- you don't need an intermediary just like "Initech" didn't need that employee.

Ok, moving on....

Next up, let's talk basic logistics.

For the people who say they just ask Mary to pray for them and it's just like asking a friend to pray for you, let's talk about that.

Mary is a human who lived, died and by all accounts is now in Heaven.  On that we agree, right?

While she played an incredibly special role in the Bible and in human history, there is absolutely nothing at all in the Bible to suggest she had any "super human" abilities or that she is "Godlike" in Heaven.

In other words, there is absolutely no evidence of any kind to suggest Mary can hear your prayers in the first place!  She is one human being who is not omniscient, omnipresent or omni-powerful.  There is ZERO evidence of any kind, certainly nothing in the Bible, to suggest now that Mary is up in Heaven with the ability to hear millions of Catholic prayers all day long.

Don't you think that's a bit silly?

My dead Grandfather cannot hear my prayers.

Neither can Mary.

So to answer the question "how is it different from asking my friend to pray for me?" -- the answer is very simple: they can hear me and respond.

In addition, Deuteronomy 18:10-12 specifically prohibits "consulting with the dead":

“Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you.” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12, NIV)

We typically think of that as talking to mediums or diving spirits, but thinking you are are sending messages to Mary is also "consulting with the dead."  Mary lived 2000 years ago.  Her human body is currently dead.  Depending on what you believe about when we go to Heaven, she is either in Heaven right now or will be.  But the Bible makes clear you are not to be consulting with her.

Ok moving on....

You know what would be really nice and could quickly settle this thing?

If Jesus in the Bible ever gave us a template for praying.

That would really clear things up!

I sure do wish.....OH!  Wait a minute!  He did!

Oh wait a minute, oh gee this is embarrassing....it appears I am completely off base.  I must apologize to the Catholics.  I am consulting with the LORD's Prayer and I clearly see now that it starts off with "Hail Mary, full of grace"....

Oh wait, no it doesn't!

It actually goes like this, doesn't it?

"Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.



 

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